429
and 460 Crank Gears
Tell any 429/460 Ford enthusiast that your cam has been installed
seven degrees retarded and they will quickly inform you that
you used the wrong timing chain set. Both Cloyes and Comp
Cams offer two different timing chain sets for the 429 and
460 motors. Roughly put, you can buy an "early"
or a "late" set from both manufacturers. The early
set is machined to "Factory Top Dead Center Timing"
while the late set is machined eight degrees retarded. Keep
in mind that we did use the desirable early set on our Streetwise
460. The variations between sets are all contained in the
crank gear keyway indexing and markings. Take a look at these
crank gears.
Cloyes
Original True crank gear from part number 3122
Ford 429 and 460 from 1968-1971 with "Factory
Top Dead Center" timing.
Comments: It's a little tough to make out,
but "crank gear zero" or the "o" icon
is marked inline with the keyway on this "early"
gear. Take note that the "o" keyway is directly
below a tooth.
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Cloyes
Original True crank gear from part number 3130
Ford 429 and 460 from 1972-Up with "8
Degree Factory Retarded" timing.
Comments: The
"late" crank gear locates "crank gear zero"
to the left of the keyway. Take note that the "o"
keyway is between teeth on this gear. |
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Comp Cams Hi Tech Roller crank gear from part number
3122
Ford 429 and 460 from 1968-1971 with "Factory
Top Dead Center" timing.
Comments: The
"early" Comp Cams crank gear is aesthetically
different from the Cloyes "early" gear but it
is mechanically the same with "crank gear zero"
or "o" mark directly above the keyway. |
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Comp Cams Hi Tech Roller crank
gear from part number 3130
Ford 429 and 460 from 1972-Up with "8 Degree Factory
Retarded" timing.
Comments: The
"late" Comp Cams crank gear is aesthetically
different from the Cloyes "late" gear but it
is mechanically the same as well. The "crank
gear zero" mark is to the left of the keyway. |
Streetwise
460: Remedy
In an attempt to get
to the bottom of this mess and correct our 460's cam timing
, we researched various forums threads and found that
this timing chain confusion was not an unusual occurrence
for 429 and 460 owners. Cam help lines offered some assistance
but nothing proved more valuable than the power of the people
through technical Ford-related internet communities. While
scenarios and solutions varied based on application variables,
one thing rang true... you've got to verify intake centerline
with degreeing tools and avoid depending on "crank gear
zero" to yield the correct phasing of your cam. Here's
how we ultimately arrived at a 106 degree centerline for this
460 motor per the Comp Cams specification.
Going against all instincts, we experimented with the "late"
timing chain set from Comp Cams. Yes, this is the set that
is machined to retard your cam 8 degrees. However, instead
of degreeing to the outer "o" icon, we degreed to
the "o" keyway.
 With the motor back set to Top Dead Center, we removed
the "early" gear set and added the "late"
gear set.
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 Ignoring the outer and offset "o" icon on the
crank gear, we set the chain up so the "dot"
on the cam gear aligned with the "o" keyway.
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 Measuring intake centerline with the "early"
timing chain set indexed in
this position yielded a 105 degree reading. That placed
us within 1 degree of the cam card spec, a satisfactory
reading despite the
unorthodox approach. |
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 With the intake centerline where it should be, the 460
ran much smoother, cooler, and was no longer fouling plugs. Download
(5MB) |
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| We went from fouled to a bit lean.
Now we could make carburetor adjustments with some hope. |
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Conclusion
To verify our findings, FordMuscle put a call in to Paul Kane
at High Flow Dynamics.
High Flow Dynamics is a low volume, low production custom
manufacturer exclusively specializing in Ford 429 and 460
performance parts. Paul shared his experience with various
429 and 460 timing chain sets and confirmed that differences
do exist even between identical part numbers from the same
manufacturer. His conclusion, like ours, was to always verify
intake centerline no matter what set you are using.
If you are currently running a 429 or 460 that isn't meeting
your power expectations, you may want to question and verify
that your cam is phased per your cam manufacturer's specification.
One final thought, Paul Kane suggested that installing the
early Cloyes brand timing chain set at "crank gear zero"
may have put us within specification on the motor used in
this article.
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Posted by Jeffhynes, 04/27/07 05:44pm:
Good article with an awesome title!
Posted by jeffstar, 04/27/07 05:52pm:
Excellent article!
Posted by billbailey, 04/30/07 09:49pm:
This very thing happened to me when I built my 460, I called the rep at Jegs and explaine to him that my cam was not degreeing right and said that the mark on the timing gears was not straight up and he argued with me that it was right, I sent that set back to them and got a refund and I ordered the set recomended by Edelbrock for that perticular cam I got from them and it degreed perfectly. I was fortunate to discover this before I finished my motor because I did the degree process in advance.
This article is very informative, I hope you will re dino the Streetwise Ford motor so we can see the difference. I used the Streetwise article for an outline of how I wanted to build my 460, Thanks to you all,
Bill Bailey
Posted by zak7711, 05/22/07 12:42pm:
Thank you so much indeed for this great article.
Posted by tray521, 05/24/07 05:36pm:
excelent article and Paul Kane is as stand up a guy as you will ever find!!!! If you want oil mod info for your 429/460 or a high volume oil pump, buy direct from him at high flow. He is the man.
tim ray--Fordaholic
Posted by gerrys67, 06/25/07 06:50pm:
Gentlemen,
I'm experiencing the same problems that you had with the Comp cam. I however have a 429 with the Edelbrock RPM Performer intake and cam. I installed drive gears instead of a timing chain. I have a 750 holley carb, C6 tranny, Mallory ignition. I'm running very hot, lack power and the timing marks are way off. Will the proceedures for my setup be the same as with the Comp cam setup?
Please help me if you can. I'm at my wits end. Great web site. Thanks Gerry
Posted by Mikelonis, 06/29/07 08:09am:
Gerry,
Yes, the cam degreeing methods in this article are the same no matter what cam you are using. You may want to switch to a timing chain if you really want to use this article as a direct reference. Good luck. I feel your pain.
Jon
Posted by JerryMoss, 07/03/07 09:18am:
Very very nice article and very good discribed.
I think iŽll buy those tools and give myself
a try! ;o)
Thanks alot
Posted by fweber671, 08/05/07 02:26pm:
Great article...is the same procedure followed when timming a small block ford 289 and how do you measure valve clearance on a motor?
Posted by jimmyg0723, 09/28/07 09:44am:
havent built my 460 yet but this will come in handy
Posted by FUKAZ28, 10/10/09 05:27pm:
very informative article guys. Keep up the great work.
Posted by grabber68, 03/28/10 06:31am:
good info i am getting ready to sap cams in a 351m.
Posted by wpscherer, 12/09/11 05:40pm:
very nice big help thank you
Posted by SAISSERT, 03/11/13 07:17am:
I rebuilt a 351 W in my 87 F250 6 years ago. never ran right?!
I put in Edelbrock gears and chain, similar looking to the sprockets in ths articleand a crane cam.
The cam I used was a little different and deserves note in that @ .050 the 9degrees ATC. this had me fooled a while. as in this article I ended up with my crank gear going on in the advanced setting.
A little bit more assurance was realized by checking intake closing and complete open degree settings.
I hope this one sounds as good as yours does. Thanks!
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